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Same gender marriage?

same gender marriage

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#121 William

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 05:46 PM

the government has a moral responsibility to try to provide equality and freedom of choice to the people and is therefore wrong in denying gays/lesbians the right to marry the moral bit of it has no place in the legal part of this issue

Incorrect. The government's responsibility is to govern, which includes drawing a line on how "free" its people can be. If there were absolute freedom, the government need not exist because it would have no laws to enforce or create, and anarchy results.

Edited by William, 10 June 2012 - 05:46 PM.

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#122 kilvehk

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Posted 10 June 2012 - 10:29 PM

key word "moral" responsibility it is the "moral" responsibility of the government to make sure that everyone is given equal opportunity this is a part of governing and does not mean that we should all be given absolute freedom but rather that there should not be laws that apply to one group of people and not to others unless absolutely necessary as in the case of criminals, they broke the law and therefore are denied certain freedoms and rights, by outlawing gay marriage you are treating them as criminals by denying them their rights as humans. this is nothing short of complete ignorance and bigotry. you have no right to say they are wrong and deny them the pursuit of happiness based on your personal opinion any more that the kkk has the right to abuse, kill, or keep black people as slaves based on their personal option


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#123 Greg

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Posted 11 June 2012 - 12:34 AM

Incorrect. The government's responsibility is to govern, which includes drawing a line on how "free" its people can be. If there were absolute freedom, the government need not exist because it would have no laws to enforce or create, and anarchy results.


Obviously not...the idea of a government contradicts that of total freedom because the point of government is to implement laws to make the land a safer and better place.

I think, bar a couple of issues, we are as free as we need to be. An average human, following the laws, can do just about anything he'd like.
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#124 William

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:06 PM

there should not be laws that apply to one group of people and not to others unless absolutely necessary as in the case of criminals, they broke the law and therefore are denied certain freedoms and rights, by outlawing gay marriage you are treating them as criminals by denying them their rights as humans. this is nothing short of complete ignorance and bigotry. you have no right to say they are wrong and deny them the pursuit of happiness based on your personal opinion any more that the kkk has the right to abuse, kill, or keep black people as slaves based on their personal option


Since when was marriage a human right? There are no laws that say that a certain person cannot marry individuals of the other sex.

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#125 Greg

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 02:55 PM

Since when was marriage a human right? There are no laws that say that a certain person cannot marry individuals of the other sex.


I think the point he was trying to get across was that outlawing same-sex marriage is discrimination, rather than a blockade of human rights.
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#126 AnonymousRS

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 03:28 PM

In the UK, article 12 of the Human Rights Act covers the right to marriage of anyone over the age of consensual legal marriage. Whether or not a church would be willing to marry two people of the same sex, is another point entirely. They should have the right to refuse if it isn't in line with their religious beliefs. It's easy enough to find a registrar who would marry two people of the same sex in a Civil Partnership.

I don't see a problem with people getting married, whether they be of opposite or same sex. Sure, if people wanted it in a church which forbids homosexuality, then tough luck you can't have it there. You wouldn't have a hog roast in a Synagogue now, would you?

People need to seperate the act of getting married, and the religious meaning behind it. Sure, marriage was made by religion, but so was early laws, but we don't consider the laws to be religious. If we did, an Atheist coud murder and get away with it! If anything, marriage is now more political and economic, rather than religious, as religion has been in a slow decline over the past 70 or so years.

In short, let them marry who they want, let the churches or other religious establishments decline requests to perform the marriages if they do not agree to them.

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#127 kilvehk

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Posted 12 June 2012 - 06:15 PM

I think the point he was trying to get across was that outlawing same-sex marriage is discrimination, rather than a blockade of human rights.

In the UK, article 12 of the Human Rights Act covers the right to marriage of anyone over the age of consensual legal marriage. Whether or not a church would be willing to marry two people of the same sex, is another point entirely. They should have the right to refuse if it isn't in line with their religious beliefs. It's easy enough to find a registrar who would marry two people of the same sex in a Civil Partnership.

I don't see a problem with people getting married, whether they be of opposite or same sex. Sure, if people wanted it in a church which forbids homosexuality, then tough luck you can't have it there. You wouldn't have a hog roast in a Synagogue now, would you?

People need to seperate the act of getting married, and the religious meaning behind it. Sure, marriage was made by religion, but so was early laws, but we don't consider the laws to be religious. If we did, an Atheist coud murder and get away with it! If anything, marriage is now more political and economic, rather than religious, as religion has been in a slow decline over the past 70 or so years.

In short, let them marry who they want, let the churches or other religious establishments decline requests to perform the marriages if they do not agree to them.


exactly


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#128 Hi Im Trippy

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Posted 29 June 2012 - 11:08 PM

What happens in other peoples personal life should not effect anyone.

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#129 Zealot.

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Posted 09 August 2012 - 10:07 PM

I think its a disgrace that in our world today, we are denieing the right for gay people to get married traditionally. If they want to be together for the rest of their lives, why stop them from happiness? I mean seriously, marriage is making a technically making a commitment together, and yet for some reason, only men and women can get married together, which i find unfair. They get happiness, but gay couples who actually want to get married, and usually have much longer relationships than a normal average couple.

Also, why people are so against it, i don't understand, it not like its going to effect their lives or change their lives forever.

#130 Snuff

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Posted 17 October 2012 - 10:26 AM

I believe that people's decisions are their own and that if they feel that they love each other enough to get "married" then they should be allowed, i also think they deserve equal rights and should be allowed to do exactly the same as all other human beings such as join the army.
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#131 Madame Kate

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Posted 19 October 2012 - 11:18 PM

I don't think we should have the power to judge or rule how others live their lives. Love is love, no matter what. We are all equal. Saying that safe sex couples shouldn't be allowed to marry, but have the same privileges and rights as heterosexual couples, is basically saying two different things. Isn't being married a privilege and a right, as a human?

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#132 Doc

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Posted 20 October 2012 - 09:36 PM

I believe that gay people should be able to marry. Love is love. It doesn't matter whether it's of same sex or of different sex, love is a sacred emotion that cannot be denied or blocked. To block a commitment of love due to sexual orientation is discriminatory and evil in itself. Just because a couple is homosexual doesn't mean that they do not deserve the right to a permanent commitment. Plus, what damage would they possibly do by marrying? Are they going to spread anarchy? Are they going to bomb every major metropolis in the world? Are they going to take innocent people hostage and kill them off one by one? By marrying they are ready to commit themselves to a lifelong relationship, and they are doing nothing wrong and are only proving that they care about each other deeply. There's no immorality nor evil in there. Just love at its purest form.

American culture. We have a motto: In God we trust. It's printed on every form of American paper and coin currency. We haved a song: "God bless America". Our leaders in Washington D.C. stood on the steps of our nation's capitol and sang it on September 11, 2001. We have a pledge to our flag which contains the words "One nation, under God...". I recited that pledge almost every morning for 6 years in public school.
Which God? For the most part,it's the God of the King James Bible. And in that bible, it states that homosexuality is a sin. Some Americans proclaim "it would be no wonder for the terrorists and extremists to call us infedels if we were to legalize same sex marriage". In Great Britain, They knighted Sir Elton John and then he turned around and married a man. That don't chill with American culture. There are millions of southern baptists that will back me up on this. I aint talking about my personal opinion. I'm talking about American culture.


So what about people of other religions? What about atheists? Do they not count as Americans?

So southern baptists are the only people that are American? What about people of the northern states? What are they, Canadians?

And you seem to believe that the Bible is infallible. So I guess that means that polygamy is not sinful and the first human beings were created out of the blue by divine intervention.

Edited by Doc, 20 October 2012 - 09:51 PM.

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#133 Pandazack91

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Posted 21 October 2012 - 03:42 AM

My opinion on esame gender marriage is the same on both sides. What make sthem happy is what makes me happy. Be it male on male, or female on female. As along as they're happy, screw the goverment, screw the people and screw people's thought on same gender marriage. Regiion shouldn't matter, and people shouldn't butt in where they shouldn't want. I don't give a crap. If I wanted to make a male my husband, Then I will. An vice versa for women. I am fine with gays, as long as they don't come at me the wrong way. I am not gay, and I love women. I have several gay friends, and they know once they step past a boundary they will get their butts beat. LOL.
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#134 MrStormy

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Posted 18 January 2013 - 08:00 AM

I personally think gay marriage is wrong for the most part! I'm not christian and don't care what the bible says either, that is not my issue. I have no problem with people being gay, I'm not homophobic or anything like that, but I guess I'm just old fashion and think gay issues need to stay in the closet. I have several gay friends and have no problem with people that are gay.

 

I personally do not want to see 2 grown men kissing in public, 2 women on the other hand is hot (as long as they let us men join in the bedroom fun, ya I know, I'm a typical perverted male so sue me) I don't think it is morally correct to display that behavior in front of children. And no I'm not worried the gayness will rub off.  Kids have enough to process already and understanding John is married to Bill should not be one of the things parents have to explain.

 

I agree gay couples should have the benefits of a married couple in the terms of legal, medical, and death benefits etc and in all honesty would not have an issue with marriage if the people involved would be sensible to what society looks at as the norm, but they wont and thats the rub here. I do not think gay couples should be allowed to adopt and raise a child and I'm sorry to all the gay people for feeling this way but to me that is just not right.

 

 I want to be open and receptive to new ways of thinking, but this is one issue that I have a hard time with. I don't want to alienate or upset anyone who is gay because I do believe its their right to choose who they want to love, but I also don't want to be forced to observe this behavior in public.



#135 Supermancav

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 04:05 PM

I personally think interracial marriage is wrong for the most part! I'm not christian and don't care what the bible says either, that is not my issue. I have no problem with people in interracial relationships, I'm not racist or anything like that, but I guess I'm just old fashion and think race issues need to stay in the closet. I have several black friends and have no problem with people that are black.

 

I personally do not want to see a white woman and a black man kissing in public, 2 black women on the other hoof is hot (as long as they let us men join in the bedroom fun, ya I know, I'm a typical perverted male so sue me) I don't think it is morally correct to display that behavior in front of children. And no I'm not worried the blackness will rub off.  Kids have enough to process already and understanding how racist their parents are should not be one of the things parents have to explain.

 

I agree interracial couples should have the benefits of a married couple in the terms of legal, medical, and death benefits etc and in all honesty would not have an issue with marriage if the people involved would be sensible to what society looks at as the norm, but they wont and thats the rub here. I do not think  interracial couples should be allowed to adopt and raise a child and I'm sorry to all the black people for feeling this way but to me that is just not right.

 

 I want to be open and receptive to new ways of thinking, but this is one issue that I have a hard time with. I don't want to alienate or upset anyone who is black because I do believe its their right to choose who they want to love, but I also don't want to be forced to observe this behavior in public.


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#136 Doctor Berry

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 05:41 PM

I personally think gay marriage is wrong for the most part! I'm not christian and don't care what the bible says either, that is not my issue. I have no problem with people being gay, I'm not homophobic or anything like that, but I guess I'm just old fashion and think gay issues need to stay in the closet. I have several gay friends and have no problem with people that are gay.

 

I personally do not want to see 2 grown men kissing in public, 2 women on the other hand is hot (as long as they let us men join in the bedroom fun, ya I know, I'm a typical perverted male so sue me) I don't think it is morally correct to display that behavior in front of children. And no I'm not worried the gayness will rub off.  Kids have enough to process already and understanding John is married to Bill should not be one of the things parents have to explain.

 

I agree gay couples should have the benefits of a married couple in the terms of legal, medical, and death benefits etc and in all honesty would not have an issue with marriage if the people involved would be sensible to what society looks at as the norm, but they wont and thats the rub here. I do not think gay couples should be allowed to adopt and raise a child and I'm sorry to all the gay people for feeling this way but to me that is just not right.

 

 I want to be open and receptive to new ways of thinking, but this is one issue that I have a hard time with. I don't want to alienate or upset anyone who is gay because I do believe its their right to choose who they want to love, but I also don't want to be forced to observe this behavior in public.

 

 

I personally think interracial marriage is wrong for the most part! I'm not christian and don't care what the bible says either, that is not my issue. I have no problem with people in interracial relationships, I'm not racist or anything like that, but I guess I'm just old fashion and think race issues need to stay in the closet. I have several black friends and have no problem with people that are black.

 

I personally do not want to see a white woman and a black man kissing in public, 2 black women on the other hoof is hot (as long as they let us men join in the bedroom fun, ya I know, I'm a typical perverted male so sue me) I don't think it is morally correct to display that behavior in front of children. And no I'm not worried the blackness will rub off.  Kids have enough to process already and understanding how racist their parents are should not be one of the things parents have to explain.

 

I agree interracial couples should have the benefits of a married couple in the terms of legal, medical, and death benefits etc and in all honesty would not have an issue with marriage if the people involved would be sensible to what society looks at as the norm, but they wont and thats the rub here. I do not think  interracial couples should be allowed to adopt and raise a child and I'm sorry to all the black people for feeling this way but to me that is just not right.

 

 I want to be open and receptive to new ways of thinking, but this is one issue that I have a hard time with. I don't want to alienate or upset anyone who is black because I do believe its their right to choose who they want to love, but I also don't want to be forced to observe this behavior in public.

 

Really kinda confused as to why you took Stormy's post and tried to turn it into a black and white race thing instead of being on the topic of Same Gender Marriage. Not Same Race Marriage.


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#137 Hope

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 06:16 PM

yes that is true but then doesnt give us any right to say they cant marryand who are we to say they are wrong for being gay?

 

I never understood why gay people would want to participate in a religious activity when they can not follow the first rule given by the religious institution in which the concept of marriage was first introduced as a bond between a man and a women and that is to be fruitful and mulitiply.

 

But they do and it is simply because the US gives married couples a break in taxes and so they want that tax break too. All the US needs to do is give a flat tax across the board and then everyone would be treated equally: rich. poor, married, single, straight, or gay.

 

Problem solved and then the gay community would not have to try and make the religious institutions compromise their beliefs on their own practices which violates their rights as well.


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#138 Pandora x

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 07:25 PM

I believe everyone should have the option to get married, regardless of gender.

I understand it's against a lot of religions beliefs, and no I don't think the church should have to perform a ceremony if it goes against their beliefs, that should be up to them, but a lot of the time, same sex couples don't get the same rights as heterosexual couples such as hospital visiting, etc, because they're not married.

 

 

Really kinda confused as to why you took Stormy's post and tried to turn it into a black and white race thing instead of being on the topic of Same Gender Marriage. Not Same Race Marriage.

I think he was making the point that, that was the norm in the past for people to think like that about interracial couples, and now we just think that's silly, and yet another kind of prejudice is still considered the norm...


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#139 kassandra

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Posted 19 January 2013 - 10:52 PM

I believe everyone should have the option to get married, regardless of gender.

I understand it's against a lot of religions beliefs, and no I don't think the church should have to perform a ceremony if it goes against their beliefs, that should be up to them, but a lot of the time, same sex couples don't get the same rights as heterosexual couples such as hospital visiting, etc, because they're not married.

 

 

I think he was making the point that, that was the norm in the past for people to think like that about interracial couples, and now we just think that's silly, and yet another kind of prejudice is still considered the norm...

 

I think that was exactly his point, and I think he is correct. Back before civil rights, it was unheard of for an interracial couple to be together and god forbid if they did. I am pro-gay marriage, and no Hope, not all gay couples want to get married just for a tax break, just as not all straight couples want to be married for a tax break. I didn't think when I married my husband, "Boy, now we're married, our taxes will be better!" I thought about how I loved him and wanted to spend my life with him. Sure, we could have continued to just live together, like a lot of people do, but of course that's a sin too, right?

 

While I do believe in gay marriage, I agree that a church shouldn't be forced to marry a couple if it goes against their religious beliefs. That being said, there are a lot of churches that would be willing to marry gay couples but cannot because their state does not allow it. In my Methodist college, our preacher was the leader of the Lesbian, Gay, Bisexual, and Transgender alliance. He wasn't himself, but he strongly believed in the right for all to be married, and I know that if Virginia would allow it, he would step up and marry anyone who wanted it. Also, taking the religion out of it, why shouldn't the government be able to marry them? There's no religious qualms about it in that situation.


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#140 Nltrogen

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Posted 20 January 2013 - 04:44 AM

I never understood why gay people would want to participate in a religious activity when they can not follow the first rule given by the religious institution in which the concept of marriage was first introduced as a bond between a man and a women and that is to be fruitful and mulitiply.

 

By first rule you mean all the ones listed below?

According to your concept of marriage as a religious activity, in Christianity, marriage actually means:

One Man and one Woman (Genesis 2:24)

One Man + WiveS (plural) + Concubines

One man + one woman + her properties (including slaves) (Genesis 16)

One man + multiple women, Solomon has 700 wives

Man + brother's widow (Genesis 38:6 - 10)

Rapist + the victim (Genesis 22:28-29)

Male soldier + the prisoner in war (Numbers 31:1-8, Deuteronomy 21:11-14)

Male slave + Female slave (Exodus 21:4)

 

And marrying is to be fruitful and multiply you say. What about heterosexual couples that are unable to reproduce, due to problems with their reproductive system, or they are elderly couples, or any other reason. Should their marriage be illegal too?

 

Now tell me, how people are actually obeying the 'religious activity with rules' you claimed


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